FCA pulls their heads out of

"Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness" (long-voyager-2nd-edition) 11/04/2019 at 16:54 • Filed to: News, fca

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Their asses and decides to keep the best selling minivan on the market on for another year:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Haven’t quite figured out why they think it’s a good idea to axe the GC in favor of a cheapened version of a van that already doesn’t sell well? I mean the GC is literally printing money for them at this point.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 08:00

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https://www.caranddriver.com/dodge/grand-caravan?fbclid=IwAR0sGVbG4xWulO-Y3s1UCrgwAsV2aMmKbG7jFtefPYhcRLlk1AMmn232tvE

vondon302 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 08:12

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They really need a RT version. 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > vondon302 11/04/2019 at 08:23

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Supercharged V6 would be amazing!

Your boy, BJR > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 09:18

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I see a buncha Pacificas around here. They outnumber all the other minivans like 5 to 1. 

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 10:03

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Yeah... they want to kill it because it doesn’t fit the “performance” image they want for Dodge... but they don’t want to walk away from the sales either.

It’s a conundrum for FCA.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > vondon302 11/04/2019 at 10:06

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There was talk in 2018 of building a SWB van off the Journey chassis. I’d be happy with a SWB minivan with the 3.6/6-speed combo.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 11/04/2019 at 10:06

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Make a performance option, problem solved. ;)

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Your boy, BJR 11/04/2019 at 10:07

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Around here GCs rule the road as far as minivans. After that it’s a pretty even mix of Pacificas, Odysseys, and Siennas.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 10:16

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FWD V8 HEMI!!!!

OR... mid-engine/RWD Hemi Grand Caravan.

The first has the advantage of retaining the 7 passenger practicality.

The second option would likely result in the reduction of some interior space.

P robably at least one of the 7 seats will have to be perched on the ‘doghouse’.

Shift24 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 10:19

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Thats because they keep selling more and more of them to rental fleets . (Enterprise has a ton of these). A nd which other than probably stupid crazy mark downs/rebates are the only reason its alive. (Which after searching $ 23k for msrp 29k brand new van, link below)

C/D even shows their ratings of 2/5 and quotes “good enough for a vacation rental but not much more”

Also printing money and selling a ton of them just to make a profit are 2 different things. Nissan is finding this out the hard way.

I’d be willing to bet the Pacifica which sells only about 8- 10k less unit s a year is twice or more profitable than the GC

It’s kind of like the I mpala, it really only stuck around for fleet sales and legacy of the name plate. 

http://atcm.co/VDPTXTSHRE/1f943cb4

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Shift24 11/04/2019 at 10:25

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Counterpoint: The GC still sells well because it is the cheapest minivan on the market, something the Pacifica will never be able to accomplish. Many people need a cheap family transport, the GC fills that perfectly.

People like to hate on the GC’s interior, but after driving the GC and a loaded Pacifica back to back, the GC drives better and has a more quality feel inside. It may be dated, but it feels well built. The Pacifica may be modern, but it also feels very cheap inside and handles like a Hippo on rollerskates (which is how most modern vans drive).

As of June of this year the GC had already outsold the Pacifica by 20k vehicles. The last 2 years it outsold it by 50k or more. I doubt they can afford to lose 150k vehicle sales a year.

Shift24 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 13:39

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I missed 2018 (as it was close to 33 k) but in 17 it was only 7 k.

And cheap family transport doesn’t equal good. No safety tech and a small over lap crash rating of poor. While it did well in other test its because it was built to beat those test back in 2008. This also c ould be said for the rest of FCA old line up.

Also if they were selling like hotcakes to consumers, why is there like 2 on a dealers lot? Not going to tag all of it but in the 15th most populated city there were 22 new GC, 114 journeys, 130 Pacificas, and 320 Grand Cherokees with in 50 miles. If it was so popular why wouldn’t the supply be greater than a car than a car that doesnt sell wouldn’t it be closer to the Jeep? Detroit 74 new, cinci 55 new, Atlanta 76 new.

I s FCA that short sighted not have enough of what the public wants?

No because it’s mostly  fleet. “AutoPacific’s Kim said a large part of the Grand Caravan’s volume is low-margin rental fleet sales”

Also no way are you going to convince me that a this interior is nicer than any updated van past 2016 . That looks like an aftermarket head unit as is (image is from dodge’s website)

https://www.autonews.com/article/20181022/OEM01/181029964/in-with-the-new-but-keep-the-old

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/dodge/dodge-grand-caravan/

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/chrysler/chrysler-pacifica-minivan/

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/New+Cars/Jeep/Grand+Cherokee/Columbus+OH-43214?makeCodeList=JEEP&searchRadius=50&modelCodeList=JEEPGRAND&zip=43214&marketExtension=true&listingTypes=NEW&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/New+Cars/Chrysler/Pacifica/Columbus+OH-43214?makeCodeList=CHRY&searchRadius=50&modelCodeList=PACIFICA&zip=43214&marketExtension=true&listingTypes=NEW&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/New+Cars/Dodge/Grand+Caravan/Columbus+OH-43214?makeCodeList=DODGE&searchRadius=50&modelCodeList=GRANDCARAV&zip=43214&marketExtension=true&listingTypes=NEW&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Dodge/Journey/Columbus+OH-43214?makeCodeList=DODGE&searchRadius=50&modelCodeList=JOURNEY&zip=43214&marketExtension=true&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Shift24 11/04/2019 at 16:09

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Looks =/= quality, nor does new =/= better.

The Pacifica just feels cheap inside compared to the GC, despite the GC’s “dated” interior. Sure it’s loaded with tons of gimmicks and swoopy lines, but that doesn’t make it better.

In case you haven’t noticed, manufacturers stock the things they “want” to sell, many times overlooking the things that actually sell. See the Transit Connect passenger for example, there is exactly 2 new TCs on dealer lots locally, yet the dealers will tell you first hand how many customers have turned away because they’re not on their lots. Why don’t they stock them? Because they don’t want to sell them, they’d rather push you into another CUV instead.

As far as “safety” tech goes, the majority of that is just poor driver aids, and plenty of people would rather buy a vehicle without all that added crap to fail down the road.

hike > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 17:06

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So they’ll sell a Dodge Grand Caravan for an MSRP of $27,040 and a Chr ysler Voyager for an MSRP of $ 26, 985? How does that make sense? I thought the whole purpose of reviving the Voyager was to sell it cheap to fleets without diluting the glorious* Pacifica brand name.

*May be sarcastic

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 17:08

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I wouldn’t say the Paci f ica doesn’t sell well. I see more of them than I see of the other new minivans on the market.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > hike 11/04/2019 at 17:09

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There in lies some issue as well. I can get a brand new Grand Caravan for around $22k out the door, meanwhile there are no incentives on the Pacifica which starts over $27k , and the base model Voyager starts at $26k. Why would I jump on the Voyager when I can get a GC for $4k less?

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 17:15

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My only two thoughts:

It’s looked the same since forever; if there were any new ones around, I wouldn’t notice. That’s not a bad thing, just a thing.

If they axed it, sure they may lose sales, but I bet a majority of those sales would migrate to the...uh... Durango? Journey? Pacifica? Ram version of the Transit?   Idk wtf FCA makes any more.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 17:39

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In my neck of the woods the Honda is king. I can’t even tell you the last time I saw a GC that didn’t belong to the USPS.

Just Jeepin' > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 17:43

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F or all commenters: “GC” means “Grand Cherokee” so stop confusing me.

Kthxbai.

Tristan > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 18:44

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1) I’ve got one as a rental for the next couple weeks while I’m working in Florida. I quite like it.

2) I had one as a rental last time I was in Florida. I liked it.

3) I had one in South Dakota as a rental. Even as a total strippo base model I liked it.

4) I liked them so much I bought a Routan for my wife.

They’re the perfect size- the Odyssey and Nissan what’s-it-called are too bloated and ugly. They’ve got nice features, they’re relatively simple, they drive very nice, and the 3.6 is just such a lovely engine. There are two types of people when it comes to these: those who like them and those who jump on the Chrysler hating bandwagon but have never driven or lived with them. Hell, the Journey I had recently as a rental was lovely. I couldn’t for the life of me figure out why people hate them. I drove around in a coworkers rental Hyundai Tucson yesterday- it was AWFUL, but people sin g the praises of Hyundai.

facw > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 19:04

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For the curious:

(Orange: Sienna, Green: Odyssey, Purple: Sedona, Cyan: Transit Connect, Magenta: NV200 )

Note: I have no idea how the Transit Connect and NV200 break down in terms of cargo van vs. passenger (I guess this might apply to the Grand Caravan as well, at least for part of this span, but I think FCA is pushing the RAM Promaster City (Fiat Doblo) for that space these days).

It certainly seems people want cheap vans (though not as many as they wanted a decade ago).

ranwhenparked > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 20:47

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The Pacifica is the 2nd best selling minivan, after the Grand Caravan, they were only about 6,900 units a part for 2018 year end, and the Pacifica is likely much more profitable - less incentives and the Caravan is heavily reliant on fleet sales.

Sure, it makes since for FCA to keep building it for as long as they can do so profitably without needing to pay for expensive compliance upgrades, and as long as they’re sure it isn’t cutting into Voyager sales, but, given the realities of the modern minivan market, the Pacifica is hardly a failure.   

subexpression > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/04/2019 at 20:51

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Shouldn’t the minivan just be the “Caravan”, with “Grand Caravan” being reserved for a full-size version ? Caravan with a V6 or I4, Grand Caravan full-size van that can be optioned up to the 5.7L V8 , Grand Caravan Heavy Duty with the Cummins and options for dual rear wheels and fa ctory fifth wheel dolly .

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/05/2019 at 07:01

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Around here GCs outnumber the rest of the major minivans combined probably 3 -1 at least. Strangely, Honda minivans are generally the only ones I see broken down on the side of the road?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Tristan 11/05/2019 at 07:01

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THIS!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > subexpression 11/05/2019 at 07:03

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Um, no? At this point the Grand Caravan is already almost the size of a full size van, same as most “mini”vans.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Just Jeepin' 11/05/2019 at 07:04

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In a post about Grand Caravans, GC means Grand Caravan, because no one wants to type Grand Caravan out numerous times just because you’re confused by us using GC in place of Grand Caravan.....

Takuro Spirit > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/06/2019 at 14:35

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Real fans just use the model designation , RT.

Which is often confused by the trim level R/T.

Fuck.